daywealldie

durring pride's second coming my friend was asking me what the noguerias are really known for and i told him the noguerias are one of the best if not the best jui-jitsu practioners in the world. then he came back at me with; if the noguerias are from brazil they must have learned bjj from the gracies, because the gracies learned bjj from a japanese master. they were the first ones to introduce bjj to brazil, south america and north america as a whole. but then i dont understand. i thought the noguerias thought their own bjj at BTT. im confused as to how this whole jui-jitsu web came to be aswell but if someone could help me understand how jui-jistu came to be and did the gracies infact teach everyone bjj..

Robert_Lake

I was actually just talking to about this in a Judo thread on this site.

here's the link
Judo

Cheers

__________________
RIP Rick James

Jason

This may help also,

The Gracie style was created in Brazil in the early part of this century by Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu pioneer Carlos Gracie, who studied traditional Japanese jiu-jitsu as a teenager under the great Japanese champion, Mitsuyo Maeda (known in Brazil as Conde Koma -- the "Count of Combat").

Carlos Gracie, who was interested in streetfighting and was also a boxer, quickly modified the classical techniques he learned from Count Koma to meet the demands of real, "no rules" fighting in the streets of Brazil. The young Carlos Gracie then tested and refined his system through constant matches, open to all comers, constantly working to make it more effective. At one point, he even advertised in newspapers and on street corners for new opponents upon whom to practice and further refine his art. He fought anyone and everyone who was willing, regardless of size, weight or fighting style. Even though he was a mere 135 pounds, his style was so effective that Carlos Gracie was never defeated and became a legend in Brazil.

This tradition of open challenge is a part of the heritage of the Gracie style of jiu-jitsu. Carlos Gracie taught his style of jiu-jitsu to his four younger brothers (Oswaldo, Gastão, Jorge, and finally Helio) and to his older sons (including Carlson and Carley), and they in turn taught their brothers, sons, nephews and cousins. After Carlos retired from the ring, he managed the fight careers of his brothers and sons, continuing to challenge fighters of all styles throughout the world. This tradition of open challenge has been continued by his sons, grandsons, brothers, nephews, and students, who have consistently demonstrated the superiority of the Gracie style in real fights and minimum-rule matches in rings throughout the world.

Robert_Lake

Once the Gracies had got BJJ down to an art they could call their own, one of the gracie's, Helio i believe, went to Japan to challenge the Japanese Jui Jitsu master, who's name was Kimura. Kimura would not just fight Gracie for Gracie had not proven himself worth yet. He fought Kimura's understudy and was able to beat him. In Helio's fight with Kimura, Helio wound up getting tapped by and armlock which was later named the Kimura for that very reason.

I find this interesteing because in Royce's comeback to the UFC, Helio, Royce's father, was there at ringside for his fight with Matt Hughes. Hughes got Royce in a Kimura, the same move that Helio tapped to so many years ago, but Royce refused to tap.

kind of a crazy coincidence that Helio got tapped by Kimura while fighting the best in the world and then Royce gets caught in the same submission when he is fighting the best in the world.

__________________
RIP Rick James

MATT E

Thanks for that Robert was very interesting to hear. Do you know if Master Kimura still exists or his where abouts?

Robert_Lake

I rented a Jui Jitsu book from the Library called Royce Gracie's Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Self-Defense Techniques. In the beginning couple pages was the story of how Gracie Jui Jitsu came to be.

I tried to find it online but couldnt

__________________
RIP Rick James

Jason

Yes sir, it was Royce's father Helio who challenged Kimura.

BTW, A Kimura is technically a shoulder lock.

Babalunatic

Very true. People have had their elbow dislocated from a Kimura (the Saku vs Renzo fight as a professional MMA example), but it is really a shoulder lock and if you don't tap you can and probably will get your shoulder dislocated. I have pretty flexible shoulders and that shit still hurts like hell.

__________________
Avatar bets: 1-1

way26

I know this is an old thread but here is a pretty good "summed up" biography on Masahiko Kimura. Enjoy!

Masahiko Kimura Biography

__________________

Berzerker

Side note... where the hell did Babalunatic go?

__________________
The More You Sweat In The Gym, The Less You Bleed In The Ring.